Lilith dosen't Exist!! (1 views) Subscribe   
  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/23/2001 9:40 am  
To:  ALL   (1 of 78)  
 
  77.1  
 
There are some that say that Adam had a wife named "Lilith" prior to Eve. Lilith is Never mentioned in the Bible nor is she mentioned in the "Torah" (the first five Old Testament books, Gen. - Deut.; of the Bible, written by Moses) Lilith is not mentioned One Time. Yet some people think that they know more about God's creation of man and woman then the Bible does.
There is No Way Lilith ever existed!!

Adam is a Type of Jesus: And Eve (the Bride of Adam) is a type of the Church:

John 3:29 He (Jesus) that hath the Bride is the bridegroom: but the Friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth Him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

2Corinthians 11:2,3 For I (Apostle Paul) am jealous over you (Church) with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a Chased Virgin (faithful) to Christ. But I fear, least by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the Simplicity of Christ.

1Corinthians 15:45-50 And so it was written the first man Adams was made a living soul; the last Adam (Jesus) was made a quickening (Life Giving) Spirit. Howbeit that was Not First which was Spiritual, but that which is natural (physical); and afterward that which is Spiritual. The first man (Adam) is of the earth, earthly: the second man (Jesus) is the Lord from Heaven. As is the earthly so are they that are earthly: and as is the Heavenly, so also are they that are heavenly. And as we have bore the image of the earthly, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, Brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Adam was placed in a deep sleep (i.e. death) and his bride was taken from his side. This is Prophecy of the Cross of Jesus. Jesus suffered death on the Cross and we the Church are His bride, we are cleansed by the Blood and Water that flowed from the Side of Jesus on the Cross. 

*The Entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation speaks of Jesus and of His relationship with mankind. See the thread Jesus in the Old Testament

Ruth is absolutely correct in her post that this Lilith Garbage is Satanic. It is a perversion, Only to Pervert the Glorious Gospel of Jesus. We as Christians Need to Stand against the Lies and Deceit that are being so Thoughtlessly Promoted and in such abundance!

I hope that it is clear to the People who visit this forum that the Lies are designed to Separate you from the Love of Jesus. 




David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum




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Edited 6/23/01 12:43:51 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 

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Edited 6/23/01 12:47:18 PM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   6/23/2001 2:00 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (2 of 78)  
 
  77.2 in reply to 77.1  
 
Out of curiousity, where did you get a copy of the Torah and when did you learn to speak Hebrew? 
Al Kupone
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/23/2001 2:17 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (3 of 78)  
 
  77.3 in reply to 77.1  
 
How did you manage to get a copy of the Torah when you didn't even know what it was a week ago? 
And where did you get an English version since they're very hard to find? 

Oops... You didn't.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   6/23/2001 4:31 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (4 of 78)  
 
  77.4 in reply to 77.3  
 
Try translating Lilith ... then translate Eva .... Bingo!

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/23/2001 11:23 pm  
To:  ALL   (5 of 78)  
 
  77.5 in reply to 77.4  
 
The following info comes in part from www.orthodoxhebrew.org 
Adamah (Adam), Chawwah (Eve) 

Night is in refrence to Darkness and being without God as compared to Light and salvation with God. 

Genesis 1:5 And God called the light day, and the Darkness He called Night. 

3. Night is from the Hebrew word, "Lilah", which is related to Layil which means night yet Lilah means, To twist, or fold back away from light(as in an adversity. LILAH is also known as the female demoness of the night as found in Ancient Hebrew Writings and legends, also known as Lilith( She was/is known to be responsible for sudden infant death syndrome and seducing men in their dreams) 

*found in ancient Hebrew writings (folklore) Not found in the Bible or in the Torah. 






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/24/2001 12:34 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (6 of 78)  
 
  77.6 in reply to 77.5  
 
I ran across this today on accident. =) 
For further reading on Lilith, I suggest "Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible" edited by David Noel Freedman. Some versions of the King James contain reference to Lilith in Isa 34:14. Unfortunately, I've got one King James Bible which acutally uses the words "like Lilith" while another I have just used the word "she". The one which referenced Lilith was one of those free, small, plastic copies of the Old Testament. Your mileage may vary. Check a couple different King James Bibles along with maybe a Jewish Bible or a study Bible. The Oxford King James study Bible I have uses "she" instead of "like Lilith" but suggests the alternate translation in the footnotes.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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  From:  DW (DeathWish123)   6/24/2001 1:15 am  
To:  Dr_Shock   (7 of 78)  
 
  77.7 in reply to 77.6  
 
Yup. My New American Bible mentions Lilith there as well. They even have a little * thingamabobber there after her name. At the bottom it says: 
Lilith: a female demon thought by Hebrews to be the first wife of Adam who roams the desert.

---------------------------------- 

W.W.I.D 

What would I do? 

Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, because I am the baddest mother in the valley.
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/24/2001 8:03 am  
To:  ALL   (8 of 78)  
 
  77.8 in reply to 77.1  
 
Had the Jews Believed that Lilith was the first wife of Adam it would have been written in the Bible. 
The Jews are Gods Chosen People to write the Bible, they Knew and Understood that God Created Adam and Eve and Documented it in the Bible. 

Lilith is a pun on the noun Night not the Name of a person. 

Isaiah 34:14 talks about wild beasts or monsters the word Lilith is not used and there is No context to any of this as being the first wife of Adam. The monsters might be demons so a commentator suggested a tie in to Lilith Jewish folklore of a demoness. 

*Note Humans do not Become Angels nor do they become Demons. Once a human dies they go Immediately to either Heaven or Hell. Humans do Not haunt the earth like demons do. 

**Lilith could not possibly be created a human then become a Demon. The fact the Jews and Bible commentators reference Lilith as a demon, makes it just that a demon and not a human and Not the first wife of Adam. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   6/24/2001 9:23 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (9 of 78)  
 
  77.9 in reply to 77.8  
 
>Isaiah 34:14 talks about wild beasts or monsters 
>the word Lilith is not used and there is 
>No context to any of this as being the first 
>wife of Adam. The monsters might be demons so 
>a commentator suggested a tie in to Lilith 
>Jewish folklore of a demoness. 
Actually, it depends on the bible that you read, go to the bookstore and go through a number of bibles, I found the word Lilith under Isa. 34:14 in about 1/3 of them and in about 2/3 of the Judiah books. 

Please try to refrain from telling people something doesn't exist when it does... it makes for bad form... then again, this is one of those non-existant inconsistancies, isn't it? 

Al Kupone 

 
  
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  From:  Adrasteia & Lyrk (ToilnTrouble)   6/24/2001 11:57 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (10 of 78)  
 
  77.10 in reply to 77.1  
 
Really... and how long have you studied the Qaballah?

When in the Hell/Purgatory area, feel free to visit the Den of Iniquity! Join the fun! 
http://forums.delphi.com/firefight/start 

I've got a dragon, and I'm not afraid to use it! 

Adrasteia & Lyrk: 
The Sapphic Spellcasters!
 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   6/24/2001 12:16 pm  
To:  Adrasteia & Lyrk (ToilnTrouble)   (11 of 78)  
 
  77.11 in reply to 77.10  
 
Be careful, he'll tell us about how the Kabalah is evil and a trick from Satan to steer th Jewish people away from god. 
Al Kupone
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/24/2001 3:52 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (12 of 78)  
 
  77.12 in reply to 77.8  
 
Demon comes from the Greek word Daemon meaning the Divine spark in man. Later, the Greeks used the word to describe the beings placed between mortals and the Gods. Originally, the word had no connotation to evil spirits. 
By the way, the word "Lilith" isn't even close to the old Greek or Hebrew word for "night". 

-The Mad Dr. Shock 



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Edited 6/24/01 6:53:59 PM ET by DR_SHOCK 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/24/2001 6:40 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (13 of 78)  
 
  77.13 in reply to 77.12  
 
The word Lilith Does Not exist in the Bible not in Isaiah not anywhere. It is the word Monster that you are trying to quote as Lilith. Some are choosing to call the monster Lilith but that is not what the word is.
You act like you know so much about the Bible the Liner notes and Hebrew and Greek yet you dont even Acknowledge Verses like Isaiah Chapter 53 or,

Isaiah 9:6,7 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given: and the Government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Price of Peace. Of the increase of His government and Peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and Upon His kingdom to order it, and to establish it with Judgment and with Justice from henceforth even Forever. The Zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

So according to you, the Bible actually means everything and anything but what it says in writting.






David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/24/2001 6:52 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (14 of 78)  
 
  77.14 in reply to 77.12  
 
The Greek word Daimonion means Demon and it means more capable then humans. i.e. Demonstrably stronger and smarter then humans are capable of, but demons are not capable of giving life. 
Demons are Not the Devine spark of man. 

Humans are Created in the Image of God not in the Image of demons. 

It sounds like you are calling God a demon, but then you might be. 

A Christian would Never ever Call God anything other than Holly. Christians Know the Difference between demons and the Holy Spirit and Christians Know that We are in the Image of the Holy God our Father. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   6/24/2001 6:57 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (15 of 78)  
 
  77.15 in reply to 77.13  
 
Then why, little boy, if I have 10 bibles from different publishers, there are 10 bibles that have differences in them? 
In one of my bibles, one given to me by a Baptist trying to convert me is specifically says LILITH in Isa 34:14, is that bible wrong then? 

Al Kupone
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/24/2001 7:11 pm  
To:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   (16 of 78)  
 
  77.16 in reply to 77.15  
 
All English Bibles are Translations from the Hebrew and the Greek. If you have 10 different English Bibles then you have 10 different English Bibles that are trying to translate the Original Greek and Hebrew, some better then others. 
*If it makes you feel Big and Important to call me names, its ok, and I forgive you as Jesus forgave me of my sins against Him. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   6/24/2001 7:27 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (17 of 78)  
 
  77.17 in reply to 77.16  
 
And there has only been one copy of the greek and hebrew ever found? 
Oh wait... I know, now you're going to point to the Dead Sea Scrolls, the ones that we're not truly being allowed to see and examine for outselves, but have to take on 'strong confidence' of being accurate... right? 

Al Kupone
 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/24/2001 11:29 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (18 of 78)  
 
  77.18 in reply to 77.14  
 
"Daimonion" isn't even an actual word in either Greek or Latin. I don't know where you go it from, but your source is miserably misinformed. I was just giving you the definition and origin of a word that you seem to be incapable of researching properly on your own. The Greek word is Daimon the Latin is Daemon, both of which have various meanings but originally have no Christian connotation. Both words referred to all spirits between men and Gods. It was a generic, run-o-the-mill term used by the Mediterranean cultures. If you can't look in the Oxford Dictionary for yourself, I'm quite sorry.


-The Mad Dr. Shock 
  
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  From:  Dr_Shock   6/24/2001 11:39 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (19 of 78)  
 
  77.19 in reply to 77.13  
 
Did you even read a word I said or is your comprehension of the English language truly that poor? I said to look in several different versions of the Bible. Your best bet would probably be a translation sold specifically for Jews. Better yet, since you seem incapable of doing proper research, why don't I help you out and end this argument for good: 
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=49400&tocid=0 

http://search.britannica.com/frm_redir.jsp?query=lilith&redir=http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/humm/Topics/Lilith 

The above link even shows you where in the Bible AND the Dead Sea Scrolls you'll find her. It even explains why Lilith doesn't show up in the King James version. 

Isaiah 34:14f 

Wildcats shall meet with hyenas, 
goat-demons shall call to each other; 
there too Lilith shall repose, 
and find a place to rest. 
There shall the owl nest 
and lay and hatch and brood in its shadow 
(Taken from the above link on Britannica.com under the search Lilith.) 

Seems that I know your Bible better than you do. The quote you gave had nothing to do with the argument. Sorry, I win (as usual). 



-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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   From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   6/25/2001 1:07 am  
To:  Dr_Shock   (20 of 78)  
 
  77.20 in reply to 77.18  
 
yup that's right, I studied greek for several years and I have a whole load of Ancient greek-Dutch and Ancient greek-English dictionaries and: 
Daemon: being between heaven and earth, --> Demon, Demonic 

Daimnonion: ---- (I couldn't find it .... hell it doesn't even seem greek, it would be grammatically incorrect if it even were greek)


 
  
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From:  wknight001   6/25/2001 7:10 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (21 of 78)  
 
  77.21 in reply to 77.5  
 
Dear David, 
It seems rather obvious to me that if there is a Lilith that exists, like most sex demons it likes to lie about its past! 

Sincerely, 

Jeffrey Thomas 
+AMDG 

 
  
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  From:  SmackDown being good scares me (NewportMoj)    6/25/2001 9:29 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (22 of 78)  
 
  77.22 in reply to 77.1  
 
Eh... I'm pretty sure Lilith does exist... because if she doesn't, who was that woman that Frasier Crane was married to in Cheers? 
It's not really debateable, is it? 




'I know what I'll do, I'll leave my stylishly designed and well written (albeit small) webpage, and go to this ugly black pile of cluttered shite. That's a good decision for me.' - Ronixis, Cheappops.com, and Michael Rome, Rantasia.net 
The CalmingInfluence Forum is here ,Rantasia (incorporating CalmingAnalysis) is here, CheapPops can be garnered by going here and a CalmingInbox can be reached by clicking here and writing stuff in your email window. Pretty simple, isn't it? 
 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/25/2001 10:42 am  
To:  SmackDown being good scares me (NewportMoj)    (23 of 78)  
 
  77.23 in reply to 77.22  
 
That's TV, silly. Everyone knows that her real name is Bebe in real life, so Lileth CAN'T exist! QED! 
;0)






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Message 24 of 78 was Deleted    



  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/25/2001 12:21 pm  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (25 of 78)  
 
  77.25 in reply to 77.24  
 
Atwhay? I ontday eakspay Atinlay!! 
(The most I could decipher was something about not showing anything, and only .... christians having the facts .... or something or other....we have... yada yada yada...)






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Message 26 of 78 was Deleted    



  From:  Dr_Shock   6/25/2001 5:51 pm  
To:  wknight001   (27 of 78)  
 
  77.27 in reply to 77.21  
 
I never tried to say Lilith actually existed but rather that she is in Christian and Jewish texts. Wheather or not she exists is a personal matter, I suppose.


-The Mad Dr. Shock 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/26/2001 5:44 am  
To:  ALL   (28 of 78)  
 
  77.28 in reply to 77.27  
 
Who is deleting all of these posts???




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  From:  SmackDown being good scares me (NewportMoj)    6/26/2001 9:26 am  
To:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   (29 of 78)  
 
  77.29 in reply to 77.23  
 
You mean TV's not part of real life? Damn... are you sure? That's shaken my whole belief system now... 



'I know what I'll do, I'll leave my stylishly designed and well written (albeit small) webpage, and go to this ugly black pile of cluttered shite. That's a good decision for me.' - Ronixis, Cheappops.com, and Michael Rome, Rantasia.net 
The CalmingInfluence Forum is here ,Rantasia (incorporating CalmingAnalysis) is here, CheapPops can be garnered by going here and a CalmingInbox can be reached by clicking here and writing stuff in your email window. Pretty simple, isn't it? 
 
  
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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   6/26/2001 11:28 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (30 of 78)  
 
  77.30 in reply to 77.29  
 
David, don't delete my post, I actually used the Latin for solid excrement.....

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    6/26/2001 12:14 pm  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (31 of 78)  
 
  77.31 in reply to 77.30  
 
It was still an inappropriate Post. 
Im going to make a general post about the content of posting on this forum. 

I understand that you and others do not want your posts deleted, so please keep the content appropriate for a Christian forum. You can and do disagree with the Topic of Christianity, and you can post disagreements but you need to do it in a respectful, CLEAN, post. 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Ruth (RUTHMARX)    6/26/2001 1:40 pm  
To:  Dr_Shock   (32 of 78)  
 
  77.32 in reply to 77.19  
 
At the first link that you provided it says in the very first sentence that Lilith is a female demon of Jewish folklore Websters dictionary defines folklore as an often unsupported notion, story, or saying that is widely circulated. 
According to Strongs Concordance "Demons" are the spiritual agents acting in all idolatry. The idol itself is nothing, but every idol has a "demon" associated with it who induces idolatry, with its worship and sacrifices, 1Cr 10:20,21; Rev 9:20; cp. Deu 32:17; Isa 13:21; 34:14; 65:3,11. They disseminate errors among men, and seek to seduce believers, 1Ti 4:1. 

Lilith is nothing more then a demon and as David pointed out in an earlier post a human being can not become a demon. Im not going to dispute what you say about finding the word in the Bible some place. I havent found it myself but you may have found a translation that I dont have in my possession. I will say this though, the men that God used to write the Bible often mentioned people, places and things that were common knowledge at the time in poetry or to make a specific point. The fact that her name may be in the Bible does not mean that she was Adams wife or even that she was a real person. 

Ruth 



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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/26/2001 2:16 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (33 of 78)  
 
  77.33 in reply to 77.31  
 
David (DAVIDABROWN) wrote:
I understand that you and others do not want your posts deleted, so please keep the content appropriate for a Christian forum.
  Oddly, David appears not to consider links to the text of The Holy Bible to be content appropriate for a Christian forum.  I've just discovered that he's been censoring such links in my postings, and is now threatening to delete my entire postings if I continue linking to the relevant Bible passages.



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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 2:28 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (34 of 78)  
 
  77.34 in reply to 77.33  
 
Hi Bob..... 
David moderates the Forum. This is a Christian forum. You posted links to a Mormon Forum and you know that's why it was deleted. Just quote the Bible and leave the Mormon links out...The Holy Bible can stand on it's own. Why do you insist on sending folks to the Bible through Mormon Links? Strikes me as kind of *cheesy*. 
R/C  
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/26/2001 2:32 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (35 of 78)  
 
  77.35 in reply to 77.34  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
David moderates the Forum. This is a Christian forum. You posted links to a Mormon Forum and you know that's why it was deleted. Just quote the Bible and leave the Mormon links out...The Holy Bible can stand on it's own. Why do you insist on sending folks to the Bible through Mormon Links? Strikes me as kind of *cheesy*.
  The links he's been censoring are to The Holy Bible, and nothing else.  David professes to favor the Bible, so I am not linking to any content which he should find objectionable.  Censoring otherwise good content, because it happens to be on a site belonging to an organization he otherwise hates, now that's *cheesy*!



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 To email me, remove the string .nospam from the email address which appears below.  DO NOT send me any form of advertising, chain letters, or other such garbage.  Spammers will be dealt with very harshly!

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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 2:47 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (36 of 78)  
 
  77.36 in reply to 77.35  
 
Like I say Bob the Bible can stand up and be quoted quite on it's own merits. If I posted links to some other site using the Bible as bait, I'd be ashamed of my tactics. You are so bent on making Mormonism *Christian* you can't see how chessy it does appear. 
R/C 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/26/2001 2:57 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (37 of 78)  
 
  77.37 in reply to 77.34  
 
You posted links to a Mormon Forum and you know that's why it was deleted. 
So if I post a link to a site that supports something that I claim about evolution, is my post in danger of being deleted because David hates evolution? This is called burying one's head in the sands of denial.






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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   6/26/2001 2:58 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (38 of 78)  
 
  77.38 in reply to 77.36  
 
Oi, that's exactly what David's been doing ..... using the bible to try and draw people to his faith ......

 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/26/2001 3:02 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (39 of 78)  
 
  77.39 in reply to 77.36  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
Like I say Bob the Bible can stand up and be quoted quite on it's own merits. If I posted links to some other site using the Bible as bait, I'd be ashamed of my tactics. You are so bent on making Mormonism *Christian* you can't see how chessy it does appear.
  Regardless of what a few ignorant, small-minded fools might say, Mormonism *IS* Christian.  But that's beside the point.  I did not post links to the Bible as any kind of bait.  I posted these links to make it easier for people to read the passages for themselves.  It just so happesn that the LDS website has, so far as I have found, the best online Bible for this purpose, and that is why I have been using it.  David is censoring my links, not because he has any objection to the content of the linked-to pages, but because he objects to the fact that it is the LDS church, which he hates, which is providing the best source for thi content.  It is David, and not I, who is letting his personal vendetta get in the way of honest discourse.  Yes, this is his forum, and he has the right to run it however he pleases, but let it never be overlooked that it is he who is using censorship and dishonesty to support his own point, and that such tactics are a sure sign of one who lacks confidence in the truth of his own position, or indeed of one who knows that his own position is a lie.  One who knows that what he is saying is true does not need to lie, does not need to hide, and does not need to censor.  Truth can stand on its own against any opposing points of view.  Only lies need, or have any use for, the kind of protection that David is claiming for his own positions.  Do not let this be forgotten!



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   From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 3:26 pm  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (40 of 78)  
 
  77.40 in reply to 77.38  
 
Well no kidding, he does call this the Basic Christain Forum. I'd expect the Bible would be in it, duh? 
R/C 
  
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From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 3:42 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (41 of 78)  
 
  77.41 in reply to 77.39  
 
Hi Bob... 
Okay so now you're flying true colors..... "we" ignorant, small minded fools can't be fooled by your dogma so you go on the "wounded" oh they hate me defense! YUK!! 
Look, there are many sites of reference for the Bible BUT of course you have to plug the LDS sites because you are Mormon and would like us "christians" to follow Mormon teachings. Let's be honest Bob, that is your beef. 
You are using this Forum to promote Mormonism...protest all you want to the contrary..that is your objective. 
Start a forum called Mormonism and do your recruiting there. In the meantime, respect this forum for what it is...a Basic Christain forum. 
R/C 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/26/2001 3:56 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (42 of 78)  
 
  77.42 in reply to 77.41  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
Look, there are many sites of reference for the Bible BUT of course you have to plug the LDS sites because you are Mormon and would like us "christians" to follow Mormon teachings. Let's be honest Bob, that is your beef.

You are using this Forum to promote Mormonism...protest all you want to the contrary..that is your objective.
  If you think that we Mormons are non-Christian, if you think that we are very far removed from The Bible, then how can posting links to text from the most widely-recognized and used English translation of the Bible constitute promoting Mormonism?  If I was posting links to LDS-specific scripture, or if the version of the Bible to which I was posting links was one that you could argue had been altered specifically to reflect LDS doctrine, then your charge might have some merit.  But what I was linking to is the standard King James Version, the same version used by Christians of all denominations more than any other.  Even if it happens to be located on an LDS site, it is the very same text that is used by the majority of English-speaking Christians.

  There is one other site I have found, which contains the sacred texts of many of the world's religions, including many of those well outside of Christianity.  It includes, as does the site I've been using, the complete text of the Bible.  The Bible on this site is not nearly as usable as the one I've been using, for it puts each complete book on a page by itself; thus, Genesis, for example, all of Genesis, is on one HTML page.

  As this site also includes the sacred texts for such other religions as Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., which of these religions would you accuse me of promoting, were I to use links to Bible passages on that site?



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Edited 6/26/01 6:57:46 PM ET by BOB_BLAYLOCK 
  
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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 4:25 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (43 of 78)  
 
  77.43 in reply to 77.42  
 
Bob..... 
Just quote the KJB Bible as you post, why must you link at all? 
You're fudging the argument, yes? 
I am a Christian, would I be welcome to participate/worship at the Temple? Course we know I wouldn't be because I'm not a Mormon. Mormon and Christian are not compatible or else I could come to Salt Lake City and join right in with the flock, right?.( NOT! ) 
Anyway, it's quite useless to engage in this type of dialog, all you wish to do is teach the dogma of your religion...Mormonism. 
R/C 




 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/26/2001 5:48 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (44 of 78)  
 
  77.44 in reply to 77.43  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
Just quote the KJB Bible as you post, why must you link at all?
  One of the great things about the medium of HTML and hypertext in general is the ability to put one's main thoughts in one document, and then provide links to information in separate documents to support it.  Not everyone wants to see the entire text of a bible passage, and with hypertext, it is not necessary to include it directly.  It is the most correct and efficient use of this medium to provide the main thoughts in a message, including Bible references, and then to provide links to further information, such as the actual text of Bible passages so referenced.  One could do, as you suggest, simply include all the relevant information in the main post, and not link to anything else, but to do so is to ignore and waste the rich potential which this medium has to offer.

I am a Christian, would I be welcome to participate/worship at the Temple? Course we know I wouldn't be because I'm not a Mormon.
  Not even all Mormons are allowed in the Temples.  There are certain standards of conduct and worthiness to be met.  However, everyone, including you, is very much welcome in our regular church buildings, during our regular services.  You're entirely welcome to attend our regular meetings.  I think you might find it very enlightening if you do.  Like David, I think you have some very twisted ideas about what we believe and what we teach, and there is no better cure for such misinformation than firsthand experience.



Anyway, it's quite useless to engage in this type of dialog, all you wish to do is teach the dogma of your religion...Mormonism.
  By posting links to text from the King James Version of the Bible?  Are you saying that the Bible (or at least the passages to which I provided links) contains only the dogma of Mormonism?



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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/26/2001 6:37 pm  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (45 of 78)  
 
  77.45 in reply to 77.44  
 
Bob... 
Standards of conduct and worthiness? Christian Standards of conduct and worthiness, or Mormom standards of conduct and worthiness? "Regular" church buildings, "regular" meetings? What are the irregular buildings and irregular meetings and why are they closed to regular *Christians? If enlightenment is what the Mormon Church offers, why all the restricted access and hidden rituals? Why first hand experience for only some things and the rest are exclusive? Doesn't appear to be quite the enlightening welcome you color it to be....more twisting by Mormon's deceptive practices then my twisting Mormonism. 

You'd be real hard pressed to find scripture that supports Mormon Teachings which is why you consistantly provide Mormon links, your beliefs are not supportable by the Bible alone. The Bible is the only prooftext of the Christain faith, sola scriptura! 

As for your usage of the Bible, that is exactly what Mormon's do, USE the Bible and Christain language to enhance Mormon teachings.If you really respected the Bible as God's Word you wouldn't use it as bait to promote Mormonism. 
R/C 
R/C 

 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/27/2001 1:38 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (46 of 78)  
 
  77.46 in reply to 77.45  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
Standards of conduct and worthiness? Christian Standards of conduct and worthiness, or Mormom (sic) standards of conduct and worthiness?
  I'm not sure what you mean, but there's really not anything remarkable about these standards.  If I had immediately available to me the questions that one is asked by one's bishop during a Temple-Recommend interview, I don't think there'd be any harm in my posting them.  I have only my hazy memory of my last such interview some months ago, but the questions generally cover such things as whether one truly believes in God the father, in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost, whether one is honest in one's dealings with others, and various things of that sort.



"Regular" church buildings, "regular" meetings? What are the irregular buildings and irregular meetings and why are they closed to regular *Christians?
  By regular buildings, I mean our church meetinghouses, where most of our meetings take place, including our array of Sunday services.  Most of the meetings are very much open to the public.  The only exceptions would be certain leadership meetings which are only for, and only of interest to, those in certain positions.

  The other buildings, the irregular buildings, as you put it, would be our Temples.  These buildings, and the ceremonies performed therein, are extremely sacred to us.  We are constrained from discussion very much about these ceremonies with outsiders, and even if we were not so constrained, I think there would simply not be any way to satisfactorily explain them to outsiders.  The best I can do by way of explaining is with, what I am afraid is a very poor anaology  If the whole of enlightenment which is found in orthodox Christianity is likened to elementary school, the Temple ceremonies are like a doctoral program at a university.  These ceremonies are Christianity in a much purer, and much more complete form that is found anywhere outside of the Temples.



If enlightenment is what the Mormon Church offers, why all the restricted access and hidden rituals? Why first hand experience for only some things and the rest are exclusive? Doesn't appear to be quite the enlightening welcome you color it to be.
  To build further on my previous anology:  You don't generally take someone who has just completed sixth grade, and send him straightaway off to a university to start working on his PhD.  He's not ready for it yet.  First, he's got to go through jr. high school and then high school, then he's got to complete his lower college degrees.  As with any doctoral course at any university, the Temple is only for those who are prepared for it.

  I suppose that one correction I need to make right away is to dispel a misleading impression of exclusivity that I may have given.  The vast majority of people do not get anywhere near achieving a doctorate degree.  I do not intend to imply, by my use of this analogy, that the percentage of Mormons who are eligible for Temple recommends is similarly small.  I once heard a statistic that about a third of adult Mormons held Temple recommends.  This seems unreasonably low to me, until I remember that there are a great many people who are listed as members of the church, but who are not active participants therein.



You'd be real hard pressed to find scripture that supports Mormon Teachings which is why you consistantly provide Mormon links, your beliefs are not supportable by the Bible alone.
  I don't think you even know what our beliefs are.  Let me ask you this.  Before they fell victim to Davidian censorship, did you follow any of my recent Mormon links to see what kind of content they led to?



As for your usage of the Bible, that is exactly what Mormon's do, USE the Bible and Christain (sic) language to enhance Mormon teachings.If you really respected the Bible as God's Word you wouldn't use it as bait to promote Mormonism.
  I think it should be obvious to most that this accusation of yours is baseless.  We do not use the Bible as any kind of bait.  It is scripture to us, just as it is to you.



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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   6/27/2001 3:16 am  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (47 of 78)  
 
  77.47 in reply to 77.46  
 
don't take it too harshly Bob, these supposed 'we love all'-christians 
are hypocrites, for they hate mormons, more even then they hate Satan.

 
  
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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 5:35 am  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (48 of 78)  
 
  77.48 in reply to 77.47  
 
Hi Vamp Bob..... 
Hate has nothing to do with disagreeing with Mormon Doctrine and Practics. Emotions should have little impact on agreeing or disagreeing with someone else's beliefs. Your injecting "hate" into the context of discussion is a shallow ( however quite useful) defense. It closes down intellectual discourse by screening all thought/dialog through emotionalism. 
R/C 
R/C  
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 6:33 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (49 of 78)  
 
  77.49 in reply to 77.41  
 
...of course you have to plug the LDS sites because you are Mormon and would like us "christians" to follow Mormon teachings.
Kinda sucks when someone tries to PUSH their religion onto you, doesn't it?

*wink wink*






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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 6:58 am  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (50 of 78)  
 
  77.50 in reply to 77.46  
 
Bob...... 
I feel sorry for you and other Mormon's that your faith is based on a set of beliefs that can only be attained through multi step illumination. How burdensome, what if you never make the grade? What if you die in the midst of this enlightenment process? 
That is what is so lovely about the character of God...His grace! God accepts us fully right where we are, all of who we are, TODAY, He just says: " come unto Me all ye who are burdned and heavy laden and I will give you rest." Christ's saving grace requires no works, no secret rituals, rites, or marriages, no pilgramages to sanctified Temples ( by human recommendation of course ) so one can become sufficiently "prepared" for a more pure and complete relationship to 
God. 

Why would I require your assistance (links) to Mormon Web sites? Surely if I wanted to read Mormon Materials I could do the search easily myself. Point is Bob, I have examined Mormon Doctrines and found it wanting... Mormonism is a heresy to Christianity. 

Pleeeeease you are not a victim of Davidian censorship. The Forum moderater has exercised his discretion to edit your posts. He started the Basic Christain Forum. It's within the rules and agreements of all Forums including Mormon ones I'm sure, that moderater's can freely edit content to their heart's desires if they so choose. What is the problem with respecting the confines/limits of this , or any other forum? 

I will close out this post, I will not engage in further conversation over Mormonism with you, it only produces arguement which is non edifying to the heart and soul of a Christian. 
R/C 




 
  
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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/27/2001 7:42 am  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (51 of 78)  
 
  77.51 in reply to 77.47  
 
Robrecht (VAMP_ROB) wrote:
don't take it too harshly Bob, these supposed 'we love all'-christians are hypocrites, for they hate mormons, more even then they hate Satan.
  I do not think, at least in what has been seen here, that it is so much hatred, as ignorance.  But it's a most unusual and stubborn form of ignorance.  Ignorance is usually curable, but in this case, the victims of it do not appear to want to be cured.  They would rather believe lies and falsehood than find out what the truth is.  I feel compelled to continue trying to enlighten anyone who will listen, but perhaps in this forum, it would be much wiser for me to take Matthew 7:6 to heart.



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  From:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   6/27/2001 8:07 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (52 of 78)  
 
  77.52 in reply to 77.50  
 
RACHELSCHILD wrote:
I feel sorry for you and other Mormon's (sic) that your faith is based on a set of beliefs that can only be attained through multi step illumination. How burdensome, what if you never make the grade?
  How's that clich go?  Something like, If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.  If you find illumination and knowledge so burdensome, then it is easy to understand why you choose ignorance.  This is a foolish choice, but it is the easier course to take.



That is what is so lovely about the character of God...His grace! God accepts us fully right where we are, all of who we are, TODAY, He just says: " come unto Me all ye who are burdned and heavy laden and I will give you rest." Christ's saving grace requires no works, no secret rituals, rites, or marriages, no pilgramages to sanctified Temples ( by human recommendation of course ) so one can become sufficiently "prepared" for a more pure and complete relationship to God.
  See Matthew 7:2123.  Traditional protestant dogma notwithstanding, the Bible makes it absolutely clear that more is required of us than to merely accept Jesus.  The grace only view actually has its origins, not in any Judeo-Christian scipture, but in heathen Greek philosophy.  To find it being seen by so many now as such a central part of Christianity would not be much unlike, two thousand years from now, finding philosophies that came from Nazi Germany being regarded as a central part of Judaism.  I find it interesting, at times, that traditional Christianity, which claims the Bible as being complete and inerrant and the only legitimate source of Gospel truth, has incorporated many beliefs like this that are not biblical at all.



Why would I require your assistance (links) to Mormon Web sites? Surely if I wanted to read Mormon Materials I could do the search easily myself.
  In other words, the answer is no, you did not follow any of those links, to see what kind of content they led to.  You ignorantly assumed that they led to specifically Mormon content, and on that basis, have attacked me.  Had you followed them, you would have found that they led to passages from the Bible, the same Bible you claim as your main source of authority, and nothing more.



Point is Bob, I have examined Mormon Doctrines and found it wanting...
  I think you are lying when you claim to have examined our doctrines.  Your grotesque, abject ignorance of our doctrines belies any claim you might make to have examined them.

  Do you have even the slightest notion how ignorant and foolish you appear, when you persist in attacking something about which you clearly know nothing at all?



Mormonism is a heresy to Christianity.
  Mormonism *IS* Christianity, in a much purer and more complete form than you have ever known. 



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 To email me, remove the string .nospam from the email address which appears below.  DO NOT send me any form of advertising, chain letters, or other such garbage.  Spammers will be dealt with very harshly!

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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 8:20 am  
To:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   (53 of 78)  
 
  77.53 in reply to 77.49  
 
Hi Seabren.... 
Yes, whenever someone tries to "push" ( bully ) beliefs/thoughts on another, it stinks! Of course that also includes those who wish to make me as "non religous" as themselves. 

*wink, wink* That being said, I am not offended if you don't want to believe what I do, no problem, dude. :o) If you were curious to know why I believe what I do and ask me to share it, I would be delighted but otherwise I have no ulterior motive to change your viewpoints. Thy are yours and I respect your right to have 'em! 
Anyway, if I read anyone hitting you from the *bully pulpit* I'll object to the tactics. I hope if you observed anyone hitting me from the *bully bench* you'd do likewise. We have our different religous/non religous perspectives for sure but in our common humanity we are all the same. 

R/C 





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Edited 6/27/01 11:25:14 AM ET by RACHELSCHILD 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 8:23 am  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (54 of 78)  
 
  77.54 in reply to 77.51  
 
it would be much wiser for me to take Matthew 7:6 to heart. 
Hehehehe... Good one.






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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 8:34 am  
To:  Bob Blaylock (Bob_Blaylock)   (55 of 78)  
 
  77.55 in reply to 77.52  
 
Okay Bob, I'm really shaking now. Gee, while you are on your Mormon dogma roll, why not ask your Mormon god to hit me with a bolt of righteous lighting, ignorant dog and pig that I am, that oughta fix my ignorant self, eh? 
R/C  
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 8:35 am  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (56 of 78)  
 
  77.56 in reply to 77.53  
 
I hope if you observed anyone hitting me from the *bully bench* you'd do likewise. 
I was a regular at Psycho Dave's and the Atheist/Agnostic Fora for a long time and I was one of the few that would defend christians and their beliefs (even though they were not my own). I grew tired of the mindless atheistic rants that some posted so I do not go there any more. I am interested in LEARNING more about different beliefs and customs from an agnostic point of view (I am agnostic), not getting anyone to change their beliefs. 

But I do speak up when I see someone posting information that is verifiably false. Yes, I will step in and trash someone who is being unfair to you (believe me, I can). But I have seen more instances of unfairness by David toward Bob than anywhere else here, and I think that you could see that too. Bob has been nothing but civil and has referenced everything he has offered, whereas David has deleted and made many unfounded claims against Bob's beliefs. 

Bob SHOULD post links to his Bible, if needed, even if you object to the PLACE those links are stored. If it bothers you in particular, don't go there. I found his links useful and I appreciated his efforts to reference his claims. Deleting his links is like banning r-rated movies, just because one person had an objection to the content doesn't mean that all other people should be kept from seeing it if they wanted to.






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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 8:38 am  
To:  ALL   (57 of 78)  
 
  77.57 in reply to 77.55  
 
Bob and Rachel: 
This is kinda funny. I feel like I'm ringside watching to people beat each other up because each one thinks their imaginary friend is better than the other's. 

Don't take what I said seriously, it's kind of a joke. Sort of. 

;0)






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  From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 9:09 am  
To:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   (58 of 78)  
 
  77.58 in reply to 77.56  
 
Hi again.... 

It's good to have honest/candid dialog and I appreciate yours. 

The claims and counterclaims for or 'agin one's beliefs is part and parcel, is inevitable, in matters of *faith*. Either one believes it or one doesn't, faith can't be proved so to speak. 
As for the deletions of web links .... got to side with David on that, it's his Forum. He believes Mormonism is not Christian and he finds the Mormon site where the Bible quotes are stored objectionable. So for David, he is defining Christianity as the moderater of this Forum, I understand/respect his position on that. 

I like to explore different beliefs and customs too. Were you brought up in a religous environment? Why/how did agnostcism become a "fit" for you? 
R/C 

 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 12:16 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (59 of 78)  
 
  77.59 in reply to 77.58  
 
It's good to have honest/candid dialog and I appreciate yours.
No prob. Most of the time it is the only way to learn something.

The claims and counterclaims for or 'agin one's beliefs is part and parcel, is inevitable, in matters of *faith*. Either one believes it or one doesn't, faith can't be proved so to speak. As for the deletions of web links .... got to side with David on that, it's his Forum. He believes Mormonism is not Christian and he finds the Mormon site where the Bible quotes are stored objectionable. So for David, he is defining Christianity as the moderater of this Forum, I understand/respect his position on that.

I never said that I disagreed with David's RIGHT to delete, just that I disagreed with his choice to use it. If I had a forum that dealt with Evolution, for example, and someone posted who disagreed and claimed to have evidence refuting the facts and posted links to documents that happened to be on a, say, Islamic website, I wouldn't delete the links just because I happen to detest some of the doctrines of Islam. The link still serves the purpose of the topic of the discussion.

Now if the guy just posted links to his site and said, "Come to my site and discover the wonders of Islam!" then I may make the choice that David did because he is promoting something I don't approve of.

I like to explore different beliefs and customs too. Were you brought up in a religous environment? Why/how did agnostcism become a "fit" for you? R/C 

My parents were pretty worldly and brought me and my sister up to just learn about as much as possible and make our own choices. At about age 12 I discovered Jesus and became full fundy. I was heavy into it for about 4 years until the pastor at my church handed me the bible and said, "read it from cover to cover" in answer to a question that I had. I did. (Before I had just read what the sermons told me to turn to and hi-lite, like most church-going Christians.) From that point on I had neverending questions because NOTHING coincided and the pastel-colored Wonderland that was always presented in sermons didn't really exist. The bible told of a dark and violent people with a vengeful, jealous god who did an awful lot of killing. The NT was a little better, but had a lot of far-fetched claims. At this point I decided that I needed to learn about the bible itself, the world around it and the possibilities in the universe. I have never stopped since. I am a scientist, I worked at NASA for 6 years, I research the nature of the physical world and all as a result of my curiousty about my religion. While I am no longer superstitious, I am not without spirit and find most of the answers I seek about the wonders of the world in nature, physics, geology, archeology, anthropology and biology. There is a lot out there to still learn...






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   From:  Dr_Shock   6/27/2001 1:08 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (60 of 78)  
 
  77.60 in reply to 77.55  
 
Once upon a time the good doctor knew a guy who hated the concept of God so much that it became an obsession. This person used to take a long metal pole out into the middle of golf courses during lightening storms and taunt God (under all sorts of names) to strike him down, using various obscenities, name calling techniques, etc. 
Needless to say, he was never struck by lightening once even though he was the "tallest" thing in the area. The lightening would hit trees and other things around him, but never him. He continues to perform this absurd act to this day. 

The point of the story: God either has bad aim, doesn't exist or doesn't strike people down with lightening.


-The Mad Dr. Shock
 
  
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From:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   6/27/2001 1:35 pm  
To:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   (61 of 78)  
 
  77.61 in reply to 77.59  
 
Hi: 
"Fully fundy" lol. I grew up in that environment and to be honest I could never reconcile it to God. Through the course of time I began to realize it was okay for me to have doubts about a lot beliefs I'd been taught. I honestly believe God expects us to examine/explore exactly what it is we profess to belive in, or else it is just a mindless expression of faith. Anyway, not meaning to prostelitize (sp?) but just so you know I don't believe Christianity has to be mindless. 
I agree with you there are tons of things out there still left to learn. I do filter it through my belief that God is the ultimate scientist and reveals Himself exquistetly through nature, physics,geology, archeology etc. etc. I love to explore and find out how the pieces all flow together. To me, the heavens and the earth are not forboding or dull places to examine. God made them and His creation is full of wonder, I think He invites us to check it all out! 

NASA, huh? Well, my hubby is an engineer. He opened up a lot of resistance I had when it came to finding *math* useful! ;o) What is your science specialty? I'd love to explore the planets, very cool to take a ride past a star! 
R/C 


 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   6/27/2001 2:28 pm  
To:  R/C Floats (RachelsChild)   (62 of 78)  
 
  77.62 in reply to 77.61  
 
Cool. It sounds like you and Bob would actually get along great if you could reconcile your particular "sects" and their differences. I think you'd find that your general overall philosophies are very similar. 
As far as my "specialties" go I don't really have any anymore. My undergrads were in electrical (RF and EM) and chemical, with a minor in physics. I branched out and worked in the fields of mechanical (hydraulics) and biology later. Now I am just sort of a jack of all trades in the engineering world and I take on just about any project. Learning is still a passion, but I like working with my hands in the outdoors the most, so I build cars, boats, dive, fish, ski, surf, travel, hunt, bike, skate, etc. etc. blah blah...






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  From:  Net Queen (net_susan)   7/2/2001 3:46 pm  
To:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   (63 of 78)  
 
  77.63 in reply to 77.2  
 
lol

 
Teruah...Tekiot, 
  
Zechariah 8:23 So said the Lord of Hosts: In those days' when ten men of all the languages of the nations shall take hold of the skirt of a Jewish man' saying' "Let us go with you' for we have heard that God is with you".
-Judaica Press Tanach 
 
  
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  From:  M_DAuvergne   7/5/2001 7:46 am  
To:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   (64 of 78)  
 
  77.64 in reply to 77.62  
 
So...uh...whatever happened to Lillith? 
Well, I just found that more intersting than Rachel and Bob dogmatically duking it out... 

There are other myths that say that Lillith was the first vampire...married to some guy after she blew off Adam...or what happened to her? Why would she have left Adam? 

*eyes googly like a small child listening to a story*


~M. D'Auvergne
 
  
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  From:  ))))====ffft!!=====--- ___ @___ (SeaBren)   7/5/2001 8:46 am  
To:  M_DAuvergne   (65 of 78)  
 
  77.65 in reply to 77.64  
 
I have no idea. I was along for the ride too until we got sidetracked on all of the ringside shenanegans and deletions...




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  From:  DW (DeathWish123)   7/5/2001 10:27 am  
To:  M_DAuvergne   (66 of 78)  
 
  77.66 in reply to 77.64  
 
Noononononononononononononononononononononooooooooo 
No roleplaying here!

---------------------------------- 

W.W.I.D 

What would I do?
 
  
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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   7/5/2001 3:22 pm  
To:  DW (DeathWish123)   (67 of 78)  
 
  77.67 in reply to 77.66  
 
it's not roleplaying DW, Lilith was the supposed first 'succubus' the description of a succubus fits a psi-vamp. 
  
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  From:  DW (DeathWish123)   7/5/2001 4:46 pm  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (68 of 78)  
 
  77.68 in reply to 77.67  
 
Oh. Succubi. I have no problem with succubi. I wish one would visit me.

---------------------------------- 
W.W.I.D 

What would I do?
 
  
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  From:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   7/6/2001 12:21 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (69 of 78)  
 
  77.69 in reply to 77.1  
 
ergo, you have never read the Thora, sorry David but no dice. 
And what is it whit you Christians that you put more faith in the cross that killed your 'saviour' than in the way he lived. 

You have no idea what a 'quickening' is do you? 

Also you keep talking about the 'sacrifice' of Jesus (who I still insist was called Jozhua), first he lived a life of soberness and oppression and then (after 'the cross') he went to heaven, a far better place than 'the earthly kingdom', I really don't see a sacrifice, just a guy giving up finite pain and trouble for eternal bliss, happiness and power. 

By the way, Lilith was in the Thora, I'm sure of that, but you %">%^@$* christians may have editted her out, you're able to do that if you're the only ones with books.






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Edited 7/6/2001 11:50:10 AM ET by DAVIDABROWN 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    7/6/2001 8:58 am  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob)   (70 of 78)  
 
  77.70 in reply to 77.69  
 
The Bible comes from God through the Jews. The Bible Belongs to the entire world and is Translated into nearly every language spoken in the world. 
Even in the earliest days the Bible was translated into Egyptian, Persian, Arabic, and many other Languages. 

Lilith is not mentioned in the Hebrew Bible, nor in the English Bible, nor in Any Bible language. 

What you are calling Lilith is a demonic spirit. 

Why dont you just admit that you are worshiping a demon, and worship it? You dont need to invent Bible passages . 





David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  M_DAuvergne   7/6/2001 9:39 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (71 of 78)  
 
  77.71 in reply to 77.70  
 
Uhmmm...I never said, nor did anyone else say, that we were WORSHIPPING Lilith, who said that? We were just speculating who she might have been. Also, I think that Kupone and Shock have you beat on this one...there are WAY too many versions of the bible, and I don't think you've checked all of them to have the propriety to say that none of them exist. 
(And DW I was not roleplaying, just recanting one of the things I've heard from other people, but there's always that haunting possibility that they are insane...) 


Je te remercie! 

~M. D'Auvergne
 
  
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  From:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   7/6/2001 9:46 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (72 of 78)  
 
  77.72 in reply to 77.70  
 
Alright, answer one thing. 
<Why dont you just admit that you are worshiping a demon, and worship it? You dont need to invent Bible passages.> 

WHERE IN THE HELL DID ANYONE! ANYONE! ANYONE! SAY THEY WORSHIPPED LILITH! 

To my knowledge, nobody has said they worship her, they said she was in the bible and that scholars contend she might have been Adam's first of three wives. 

Did you even look at the links Shock Sent you, or the reference book? Have you even bothered to do anything but look at your tiny little world and say that is all that is there? 

Now you go and accuse people of worshiping a DEMON when you know nothing about us or our REAL LIFE. For all you know I could really be a Jew or a Lutheran from what I've said in parts of this forum. 

Instead of trying to keep a logical debate going you turn it into a mud slinging argument and prove to everyone but yourself here that you cannot ascend past the level of a 5 year old with his pretend games! You even said yourself if we don't play the game by your rules that you'll edit us! 

I fully expect to see this post deleted... that's alright, I realize that for a 50 year old, you're still young. 

Al Kupone
 
  
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  From:  DW (DeathWish123)   7/6/2001 10:53 am  
To:  Al Kupone (Kupone)   (73 of 78)  
 
  77.73 in reply to 77.72  
 
David also exhibits four of the seven deadly sins 
Anger - Deletes our posts and starts slinging mud 
Pride - Deletes our posts 
Envy - Can't stand us poking holes in his perfect little world 
Sloth - Doesn't censor those that sling mud against us. 


---------------------------------- 

W.W.I.D 

What would I do?
 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/12/2001 1:33 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (75 of 78)  
 
  77.75 in reply to 77.74  
 
Hi Nbreeze,

 

Welcome and thanks for the very informative post!

 

You have been studying ancient writings, excellent! Do you also read the Bible as a Christian or do you just study it for history?

 

Just curious.

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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  From:  Zebra30   12/12/2001 5:28 pm  
To:  Natureboy (Vamp_Rob) unread  (76 of 78)  
 
  77.76 in reply to 77.47  
 
Uh..Robrecht, since when has disagreeing with a particular doctrine or belief system become known as hateful? No, I don't hate Mormons, but yes, I do find the attempt to equate orthodox Christian teachings and doctrine with that of Mormonism rather disturbing. 
  
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Message 77 of 78 was Deleted    



   From:  David (DavidABrown)    12/12/2001 9:13 pm  
To:  nbreeze   (78 of 78)  
 
  77.78 in reply to 77.77  
 
Hi,

 

I appreciate your very open and honest comments.

 

I look forward to more of your posts and more of your excellent insight!

 

God Bless You,

David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
 
  
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